Of lies and forgiveness: Update on CCC Yahoo public list

One would hope that the lies would burn themselves out and those telling them would surrender their spirit of bitterness up for the Lord to heal. But as with so many lies, those caught up in them become more and more consumed by them. Virtually every post at CCC is obsessed with ridiculous strawman about egalitarians, attributing to us just about every evil imaginable. Several members there insist on feeding an old grudge against an egalitarian author they insist on calling the "Borg Queen." CHRISTIANS DON'T DO THAT. STOP IT, for CHRIST'S SAKE--PLEASE!. Here and now, as your sister in Christ, I call on CCC to stop tolerating such outrageous sin in your midst.

CCC members also continue to bring up specific things they apparently refuse to forgive about people CCC leaders have removed from their list. And yet they publicly judge egalitarians, claiming that we refuse to forgive! It appears to be far easier for them to condemn egalitarians, even though since they refuse to have any association with the egalitarians they judge as unforgiving, so they don't actually KNOW we are aren't forgiving, than to forgive egalitarians for the long public list of real, imagined, and blatantly invented sins allegedly committed by egalitarians.

Hear this, here and now, CCC: I, an EGALITARIAN, FORGIVE YOU--SOMETIMES DAILY--EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU'VE EVER LIED ABOUT US. It's hard work, but I do it. Your false witness against me and what I believe in, has no power over me, but it clearly has poisoned you. I urge you to to seek God's help in overcoming the very natural human tendency to lie about one's opponents, and cease this ongoing falsehood. WE ARE YOUR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS! Your continued lies about us are horribly detrimental to your witness as disciples of Jesus Christ. You are better than this. We are not your enemies. It grieves my heart that you continue to portray us as though we are. I believe you are absolutely mistaken about patriarchy being a godly thing, but I would never usurp Christ's prerogative to deny that you belong to him, as you continue to claim about your egalitarian Christian brothers and sisters.

Forgiveness doesn't mean we sweep under the rug what has happened. It means that we let go of the hurt others have genuinely caused us, so that it no longer controls us. I suspect that if these CCC members would dare to do that, they'd realize that we egalitarians bear them no ill will. We won't, however, ignore the fact that they are still unrepentant in their lying about us. Forgiveness fades into toleration of relationship-destroying sin if we ignore that ongoing sin.

I pray for you, each and every day, not specifically that you would recognize that mutual submission in church and marriage is biblical (though it is and I would rejoice in that), but that you would come to reflect Jesus Christ on the CCC public list. I also pray that your false witness about us egalitarians would cease. Actually, the latter would be a fruit of the former.

Oh, just in case you are tempted to speculate, I am not "the Borg Queen," nor does the Christian sister you wrong with that mischaracterization know that I've posted this. Who I am, doesn't matter. That you stop with the blatant insults and lies, matters a whole lot. I'm counting on you to show your fellow members and readers a better picture of our Lord.

"Twerp's" Story

I am complementarian, and was also on the CCC board. I posted under the ID of twerp828. Some discussion -- I think it was whether women wearing slacks was biblical, or unbiblical, was getting pretty heated, and I simply said I would be not posting for a while, but reading. No one was attacking or flaming anybody or anything, as far as I can recall, including myself.

So Mike [McMillan], the list owner, kicked me off the list for saying that I would back away from the discussion underway.

I wrote to two complementarians about this, one is a man who is another moderater on the CCC list, and another man moderates another, much larger theologically oriented discussion forum.

The other moderator from the CCC discussion list wrote me off-list, and was not in the least supportive of Mike McMillan's decision, and the other man did not see the reason for kicking me off the list, either.

"Twerp" requested that we include this correction to the original story:

I just looked up the CCC moderator's comments to me. He actually wrote me BEFORE I was kicked off the list, and said it appeared that Mike was "pigeonholing" me unfairly, in his comments to me. I had said on the board that I would be asking some people to look at my posts and give me their assessments. This CCC moderator was one of the people I contacted. So he never said anything to me about disagreeing that I was kicked off the list, but he did seem to think Mike's comments to me during that particular discussion did not represent a fair assessment, it appeared to him. Just want to issue that correction.

I can understand quietly telling vocal egals that the list is for complementarian discussion only, and rejecting their posts, but the way I have seen both egals and comps kicked off that list, I mean the way the public e-mails are worded, is uncharitable, unchivalrous, and unChristlike.

Just my opinion.

Let's clear up some misconceptions, shall we?

"A Badge of Honor" is a clearinghouse for people to tell their stories when they've been treated in an unchristlike manner by online Christian communities. They compose their stories themselves and submit them to the Postmaster for inclusion on "A Badge of Honor." The people who tell their stories are NOT the postmaster. I preserve their anonymity, as well as my own, unless they indicate they want personally-identifiable information to be posted. Read a ways down to find the parameters of story postings here.

I knew only one person who's submitted a story here, before he or she requested inclusion in "Badge." All others I've met when they e-mailed me. I did very limited "advertising" about the site when I first set it up at 4t.com (recently renovated and now in blog format) and people started sending me their stories. I've had to twist no one's arm, nor have I posted fake stories or composites. I don't do background checks on the people who send me their stories and I don't try to figure out their real-life identities. They're on their honor to tell the truth about what happened to them on the sites they write about. With all the nut cases hanging about the web and with the way some of them have been treated, no one ought to blame them for a desire to remain anonymous online.

As for thinking I'm some person or other: As most people who frequent the web are aware, people link to other people's sites all the time. An example is Metacrock, who blogs at Metacrock's Blog, and who visited "A Badge of Honor." Metacrock blogged an entry and linked to "Badge." Metacrock is in no way responsible for the content or scope of "A Badge of Honor." Metacrock is not the Badge Postmaster, nor (I suspect) would he wish to be. So...if you have a gripe with Badge, my e-mail addy is clearly posted all over here. In case you missed it, it's badgepostmaster.hotmail.com (edited 3/17/07 to reflect current e-mail contact). If you want to get in touch with Metacrock, you'll need to contact him yourself; I don't take messages. Who knows? He might even be glad to hear from you. Just don't insult him by confusing him with me. And I've never been a part of the CCC community, nor have I any wish to be. I do read their public archives, and that's the reason why I've never desired to be counted in their number.

So Mike, though I'm in no way upset to have been mistaken for Metacrock, I'm surprised that you made the mistake. He never called himself the Postmaster, we have totally different writing styles, and he has a different Blogger ID than I do (which showed when he commented on "Badge"). You might even want to find out if there's a reason for why he does what you were so quick to ridicule. Were he your brother (as indeed he is in the Lord), maybe you'd think twice before judging him as you have. Do you want people making nasty comments about your spelling and grammar? It could be done, and it might only be carelessness on your part.

Think whatever you like about "Badge." Post whatever you wish, truth or lie, on your sites. But for the sake of your own witness and everyone's well-being, the truth is much preferable!

G R's Story - CCC Forum

I spent about three weeks posting to the Complementarian Christian Coalition forum before I was banned from participation. I joined the forum with the idea that I would agree with the group on basic Christian doctrine, but would differ somewhat regarding the issue of gender roles. In fair play to the people on that forum, it is their group for the purpose of discussing their particular viewpoint. However, I stated outright when joining that I tend toward the egalitarian side of the debate, and they let me on.

Within a week, it became obvious that they consider even moderate egalitarians to be raving feminists, heretics and, in the case of one lady, communist sympathizers. Throughout the discussion, there were various comments about my ignorance and lack of theological knowledge. I was accused of twisting scripture, and twisting the statements of the forum members. I was told I was selfish and should take up pole dancing. Then someone said this to me:

“Indeed, to portray the values, virtues, and blessings of male headship and female submission to it as evils comes very close to what Jesus describedas the unpardonable sin: to credit to the devil what is, in fact, the work of the Holy Spirit. It is here where I warn you again that your soul is in peril of irrevocable damnation. For your own sake, back up and rethink things, if you are still able.”

I responded by telling him that Christ alone saves, and the work of salvation is not dependent on a belief in female submission or male headship. He reiterated: “I merely affirmed that male headship is part of salvation, the gospel, the works.” There were a number of attempts by others to explain his statements, and accuse me of intentionally misinterpreting what he meant by it. Pretty soon thereafter, my posting privileges were cut off. Several people continued to post comments to and about me after they knew I was unable to respond, which is really one of the shabbiest things people can do on any kind of forum.

Do I regret my experience on the CCC forum? No. It was instructive in the same sense that discovering termites have eaten the foundation of your home is instructive. I needed a hammer-to-the-frontal-lobe type of discussion to alert me to the reasons that the comp/egal debate is so bitter. However, please be warned that the CCC forum may (and probably will) chew you up and spit you out like a cheap toothpick if you disagree with their views.

Postmaster's Note: I observed this story as it unfolded--no, I'm not G R--and in my opinion, G R is being far more charitable about what happened than the CCC members deserve. That is one toxic community! (shudder) The head moderator there, who made the decision to "ban" G R, is Michael McMillan. He engages in and tolerates the outrageous sarcasm and denigration of people he has removed from the "community." And G R was not exaggerating about the woman who accuses egalitarians of being communists. She's done that in several venues that I've read. Most troubling about this story, besides what happend to G R personally, is that the "If you think patriarchy is evil, your soul is in peril" gent is a newly-minted Anglican priest in Waxahachie, Texas. His name is William Mouser and he's the brains behind some of the most restrictive and outrageously extrabiblical of the "gender role" publications and seminars being spread around out there. If too many so-called complementarians start believing what Scripture says about equality in Jesus Christ, he stands to lose money. Steer clear of this guy. He's very, very nasty to egalitarian Christians. Up to and including threatening lawsuits of one egalitarian forum's moderators because a couple of participants criticized him harshly for his untruthful statements about biblical equality in his upcoming book. I may create a separate story about that in the near future.

8/14/06 - What's shameful, "Cai," is the fact that online venues such as yours treat people as they do. Hence this blog. CCC disgraces Christianity all the time, and you appear to approve. If you don't want the stories told, don't contribute to the events they describe. You might try reining in your friends when they engage in the kind of shameful behavior for which CCC is unfortunately notorious.